Interview with Gabriel Salazar on political situation. Summer School Piñera won Why? Gabriel Salazar
opinion on the current political situation.
Piñera's victory seems to be a provocation and challenge the risk of engaging in a "guerrilla war" against the state that leads to nowhere ... if you have not given a step, then it is important that popular movement matures and plan your proposal today that it has not. Fernando de la Cuadra Gabriel Salazar (Santiago, January 31, 1936) is perhaps the leading exponent of the current Chilean historiography known as Social History, which is an approximation of the historical and social reality through the study of popular and world class men, opening a central vein for knowledge of our companies to mid-twentieth century were mainly studied by academicians aristocratic flows ignoring or denying the existence of a history of the popular classes.
Assuming this challenge, Salazar has been a prodigious, prolific and complex work, to do so deserve the National Award for History in 2006. Among his most important we can highlight: Farmers, Labourers and Workers (1985), political violence popular in big malls: Santiago de Chile 1947-1987 - a popular historical perspective (1990), The history from below and from within (2003), and the constituent power of Employees and Intellectuals (Chile, XX and XXI centuries) (2009).
In this interview, the Chilean historian addressed, among other things, the future of Chilean democracy after the triumph of right, the effects of the crisis in the coalition, the role of intellectuals in the development of critical thinking or the response of the popular world and young people against the neoliberal model in our country.
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em> The triumph of the right Finally, after almost 52 years the right has won the election. In my opinion this maybe if policy is the culmination of a process of rightward of Chilean society in terms of the consecration of a set of values \u200b\u200bthat we associate with the conservatism characteristic of this sector. That is, we think of the consecration of a world view that has been hoisted to the right such as individualism, competitiveness, this idea that you can make yourself with personal effort, where collective projects not interested lot and a certain contempt or at least disinterest in politics and participation. Given this, I would like your opinion on whether this triumph of the right represents a kind of consolidation of conservative values \u200b\u200bor whether they were always Chileans a conservative people with some historical inflections
a progressive ... Well, as a historian I think that Chile today - and I mean now that all the contemporary period of 1930 forward, has not been nor is a nation right, meaning right-wing authoritarian, conservative, with unrestricted support exploitative capitalism or foreign capital, not No, definitely no.
What happens is that the political center-left have acted permanent alternative projects competing with itself and inefficient alternative projects. Because the left in Chile throughout the period from 38 to 73 which was most all the time (except the period of Jorge Alessandri [2]) acted with a political project flawed because it started respecting the Liberal Constitution of 1925, developers or projects to raise populists who could not run a liberal state. That is, it seems absurd to make a revolution with a developmental or populist liberal state was not the width, as they say in Chile recently. So that led
a series of frustrations, or the economic side development was not controlled, therefore inflation and inflation brought discontent, social unrest, etc., and there was no social justice for the same reasons. So the center-left has been permanently being played from the right, but with a bad project. And based on that split, split up and are in competition with each other. Recall that the triumph of the Popular Unity was made in a frontal ideological struggle with the development of the Christian Democrats.
also posed a "revolution in freedom." If comparing programs see Tomic and Allende were extremely similar, but the ideological and political struggle against the Christian Democrats gave because they knew the power that brought the neo-liberal approach was encapsulated in a group of Catholic University and appears strongly after that Pinochet does the shift to neoliberalism. I think this situation has not changed. The problem is, again, in precisely the center-left has failed to find or propose a project truly substantive, important ... Because if between 38 and 73 played center-left and populist developmental projects in the framework of a Constitution imposing illegitimate liberal (Arturo) Alessandri [3] today are trying to find some kind of project so far is neither developed nor is populist, in the context of neoliberal constitution Pinochet. So no wonder there is a total embarrassment and coalition governments have not reached the levels of efficiency enough to meet all of the center-left vote. So there is this division in their ranks, a subdivision of three bands.
And all this leads to the triumph of the right? Indeed, the triumph of Piñera is a very regrettable. Not only because he earns the right, because I think right here has little to do, because the neoliberal model that is installed in Chile is perfect, so perfect that does not support further reforms in its neoliberal logic. What you could do now Piñera is classic right-wing coups bad milk, for example, expelled from the state, government, municipalities all staff are hired, they are hundreds of thousands and are of the Coalition. That can make ...
The so-called eviction course, eviction. And that means for the center-left a very heavy blow because that is the bulk of its professionals, people who can think and it can offer. Would be in a situation quite uncomfortable. And the other thing you can do is try to privatize Piñera what little is left to privatize Codelco or ENAP [4], but that can not do ...
And perhaps to reverse the regulations, the role Superintendency of ISAPRES, the AFP, Banking, etc ... That's because giving more concessions to foreign capital is impossible. Give more concessions to speculators ... So do not think the government is going to be Piñera most extreme model is the most extremist of the world. But for me the important thing is something else. I think the rule of 1980 is illegitimate State, exhibiting success only in major macro-economic parameters and not on human development indicators. Long ago is already sensing a lot of discontent among the citizenry in general, maybe not against the model because it is perceived very well that, but if what the UNDP report called a "subjective distress", which translates into soaring shares of neurosis, domestic violence, which affects children and results in poor educational outcomes. On that side there is a very serious problem, he will not be able to solve Piñera neither could solve Frei. Neither. It is a problem that has to do directly with the impact of the model.
A model permanently impose an uncertainty ... Si. It has to do primarily with the type of job that exists in this country. The other day figure out that 68% of contracts are squatters, or are temporary or have no provision or no contract. It impacts people subjectively. On the other hand, there is the issue of wage rates are very low -120 or 130 pesos a month-not enough for an individual to live in dignity. But debt ratios are very high, because there are like 24 or 25 million credit cards for an adult population of 8 million. Then there is the issue of debt that is linked to a new kind of goodwill, which is gain of circulation, not production. This translates into the possibility of consuming more than it gives you the real wage and that creates the illusion that you are not poor. By not being poor, you will not protest as poor, or instead of going to the streets to protest against the state for your poverty, you're going to protest against yourself by debt. This explains why domestic violence, neurosis, and all that kind of perverse effects of the model.
seems an apparent impasse ... I think the situation has to do with civil society, citizenship and the masses. Do not think that this mass of people called self-supporting enterprise that appears in the polls. What you need is a deep detachment in respect of employment and that has to do with that entrepreneurship is more important than other forms of activity. And that has to do with what in my reading, from the 80's until today, is that there is a transitional form citizen aiming to do things for himself, not in the sense of entrepreneurship, but to look solutions for themselves, by legal or illegal. Then by means of the self, to do things by what used to be called direct action ...
A survival strategy ... If a survival strategy with a huge amount of self-employment, with great involvement of people in all kinds of traffic, the huge increase in crime with new methods and tactics is the development of underground and independent culture, hip-hoppers, rappers, white bars, etc. and the tendency to act on their own, not in the sense of favoring private enterprise, but in the sense of protest and finding their own ways. That puts a lot of popular youth trends, which can be seen in the case of the Penguins (still alive) or what happens to the youth culture of the population. My reading is that there is developing a new kind of citizenship that is not so requests, seeking solutions on their own, not only individually, but also acts as a network. Such actors are increasingly considering the need to build a new state in Chile from the public, convene a National Constituent Assembly ...
But the call to the National Assembly represents another way of thinking State or rather to reorganize society on the basis of a new democratic institutions legitimized via plebiscite? course, is to reorganize the State, society and the market, starting with the society, because that is the question background. The interest today to rebuild or build the state, the interests rebuild society. What you see is that civil society in Chile is reconstituting itself, especially the popular sectors. From there are pockets of people that is neither here with politics. Product that is an important group is considering a Constituent Assembly to rebuild the state, but a large number of young people are thinking of setting up a company strong. That's a different task to rebuild the state and a conception of politics quite different from the other. Especially if globalization proceeds of the State is recessed, is delivering power in the background, to above, to the side down. Therefore, it loses consistency and consistency loses the political class that inhabits the state as well. So we have fundamental problems. So for me it was important in the presidential campaign, like voting. Because apparently the vote between the opposition and the government appeared to be two forms of continuity, it does not matter who governs ...
Economically was almost a choice between the original and its copy ... I think what important was to vote by citizens. That is, citizenship is a process, according to some sociologists who read time ago, the processes take place according to certain deadlines purchasing terms which are slower, long or prescriptive periods are short-term, short term. I think the Chileans are within purchasing, the medium term, because it's not a mass society like in 50 or 60, but tends to be a civil society through new type of social movements . And the slow process of socio-cultural character that can be read, but not yet clearly emerges, it needs more time ...
Whereas this process Piñera's victory seems to be a provocation and challenge the risk of engaging in a "war guerrilla " against the state, we already know from past experience, that leads nowhere. Is protest after protest after protest, agitation, after shaking ... if you have not given a step, that is what happened in another era. So it is important that civil society or popular movement or social movement matures and plan your proposal and that is that today it has. Because it is not divided between the 3 candidates Piñera. We need more time and we see clearly that those who work in popular education. Frei might have allowed the possibility to gain more time in that sense, Frei because it could have forced by the crisis itself of the coalition, to act in line with what society wants.
And how will the stage with Piñera? Piñera instead we going to get into a lot of street protests, players of all types, with clashes with the police ... and that is an agitation that until we have given will be sheer excitement and we're going to be encapsulated in a fight to the political destiny. Thinking
alternatives Now, the civil society who wants to set a major player from an emancipatory perspective, I think still a very elusive concept, as Crowd category coined by Antonio Negri, in the end it all and nothing ... It is also important to assess the role played by political parties as mediators and representatives of the various aspirations of the citizenry ...
For various reasons, we both scholars and critics, or scholars and non-critical and critical-ideological, and Mario Garcés, Julio Pinto, Sergio Grez, Maria Angelica Illanes, Thomas Moulian and Marcel Claude, participate in seminars, workshops, conferences or other activities that invite us to various groups throughout Chile, to discuss problems such as these fundamental problems, because the debate Chile fund is not being in college, not being given in public, not being given in the press, the debate is taking place in what he called the Gulag Archipelago, is popular education groups, which is a network that covers the entire country is in groups of rappers who are turning to politics, this mainly in professional groups, social scientists, social workers, psychologists, etc. working in municipalities. That you are 50, 80, 100, 200 professionals of its kind - depends on the size of the municipality and the type of work performed, work in the field: in health, education, development, etc., therefore have contact with people and are professionals who are trained social, most on temporary contracts for projects or for a fee. Then these people live in the flesh of public policies and social reality, because they are right in the middle. So, are there on the ground the failure of the social and development policies and see how people react, that's what people want. That's why we organize seminars, debates, workshops, meetings with social organizations which are not mayors or politicians, but if you invite people like us. Encounters that are behind the authority and meet their needs, problems and questions, but do not leave political footprint, because mayors do not. Then the bulk of the debate is in other organizations that have been created to discuss these problems. I can mention 30 or 40 organizations that are raising such issues and create new ones every day ...
But are on a network or are groups without organs? Well, some are networked. Then I discover that all sides are discussing the same thing, that all parties expect the same, but are not interconnected, there is no national coordination. This latent, is boiling the thing in a kind of Gulag Archipelago. For example, last week I was in Concepcion to open a summer school for about 110 students and 500 people came. The response was dramatic and very powerful ... well, every time you go to Santiago province or the same. On the other hand, I kept track of the surveys that have been made regarding the degree of reliability of state institutions. All these indices show very low reliability and credibility, less than 30% or just over 10% for Congress. If you wonder about the prestige of political parties and politicians, all surveys are less than 10% for parties and 4% for politicians. Everything you said that political parties are in a stage of crisis capital of representation, it is clear they do not have the credibility of the 60's.
Anyway I insist on the importance and need for a party system That I'm not sure. People do not feel as necessary. Here the lesson of the Penguins, youth of 14, 15 or 16 years who refused to be stable leaderships and operated at all times with the system of speakers and dominance of the Assembly. And you know the question that one would do it every time he goes to County: Yes, the social movements are fine and we want to develop, but as we shall prevent the parties from taking stroke or warlords or politicians or the old political class. So the answer we give is what we have seen in the same history of Chile. At certain stages there were mechanisms of social action to prevent the movement oligarchization, consolidation of political elites, warlords, etc., Etc. ... And people absorb these responses.
Well, today we know that many of the leaders penguins were hired by the government and became government officials. That is, won the mechanisms of cooptation of the system, in this case, through the use ...
Not in all cases. Look at these young people have received after the University and courses summer to give students fourth grade and most of the leaders I have known penguins in these courses and the University in various races. I can tell you that these young people are thinking the same thing and are studying the history in depth, because the social history teaches certain practices to avoid precisely the oligarchization movements, among others. Well, finally a topic that can be as Chile can not be, the political culture here is very powerful. Just see what happens with the Communist Party. It pains me to see them as they hit the doors of the Coalition for a couple of diputaditos and now they do not want ministerial positions when all wanted was to have a minister. It is painful, they are not thinking of reality according to what is reality, continue with the old mechanical story reach the State, be deputies, being senators, old-style populism ...
it not legitimate for the Communists who feel representatives of the people, have aspirations to be included in the system to be the voice of those who so far have no voice.
Gonna make that voice in the system! A little voice in the 1980 Constitution, you have to do is change the Constitution of the year 80, that's what matters. If you already illegitimate 25 was a Constitution that was duped by (Arthur) Alessandri to put her under the table, when all the stakeholders wanted something else. And they tried to make a revolution within the framework of that constitution, was a complete failure. That is clear. So, repeat the same story with this constitution is even more liberal than the other, not even utopian, is stupid ...
We also face a process of fragmentation of the left, groups like the New Left, socialists authentic, the socialist Allende, etc. Diaspora is a true leftist groups. But they share something in common. Are critical to the model. They want a different output, what happens is that different output is that it has not been developed yet. What is simmering slowly in the pot girl that is expanded throughout Chile. Must get deep into what they are doing for young people.
Perhaps you and historian who has a long-term perspective, Braudelian - can see these movements with optimism. Sometimes my feeling is that the battery of demands that people currently have (to pay credit card to educate children in private schools, have a private health plan also) leaving little time and inclination to participate . So in the end what is left is an individual stressed with all these commitments and debts that can not account for this tremendous pressure.
has a lot to do with the fact that people who have greater social sensitivity (which may be the center-left) has done a fine critic of the neoliberal model have not denounced the background and the background of this situation. For all the important intellectual of the coalition and the coalition itself ruled on the basis of this model, then it has deeply criticized, there has been a fine critic.
Moulian Thomas's book, Chile: Anatomy of a myth is an attempt? He stayed in a few comprehensive and critical years ago. It is necessary to make a fine criticism, educationally, for example, has not been done. Young raised a critical but could not get to the bottom and get proposals. What is the educational alternative to the commercial model of education. Not clear why we have not done a thorough study by experts. There is already a complete proposal in the field of education, which starts at alternatives that were raised in 1925, 26 and 27 and (Carlos) Ibanez del Campo [5] threw it down, was raised with ENU [6] which reflected that path and threw it down ... And today is forgotten. Reappeared spontaneously in all networks of popular education, but we must systematize as a national proposal and that has not been done. And the intellectuals of the left or are in government, or are living in towns and schizophrenia, because they disagree with the policies, but can not say because they become unemployed or have been co-opted by corporate universities that pay good wages ... so that we can keep talking that we are few, we have the conditions because we are in state universities, with final contracts ...
Indeed it is a privileged ... The problem is that we are few. For example, I conducted a study that I could not deepen or publish it, because I think that is key to derive from there a lot of other studies on the new capital gains rate prevailing in Chile. Because one is left with the classical concept, but there is the added value of movement that Marx was barely mentioned in the Grundrisse, where he spent two little lines. The gain of movement is what these guys have developed a great delicacy and this must be denounced because it allows to discover the fundamentals of the economy of finance capital ...
Incidentally, the speculative nature of financial capitalism collapsed 2008 with the sub-prime crisis and subprime mortgages. course, that's precisely the financial crisis. On the other hand, generates a surplus that will alienate people but masks the exploitation and alienation on consumption. Because people with credit consume more than enough to pay, look in the mirror and are not poor because they have everything and everything is bought forward. But you have to do further studies on the debt. We know that most adults in the popular sectors have 3 or 4 credit cards and debt are 3 times what they earn. Then it generates anxiety and against whom are you going to complain if you're the one who borrows you ...
Therefore, we are witnessing of two forces. Domesticating force is expressed through these mechanisms, consumption, debt, etc. and on the other hand, there is a force of more long-term groundwater that says enough, that wants to free ... Exactly, because there are two clamps that are inside people and generate anxiety, neuroses and all sorts of side effects . At the national level has found that 48% of Chileans have a serious neurosis. That is what we have to do, that's the most important problem is happening. As you say the people are gripped by these two forces. That's why young people are taking as a model not the entrepreneur or honest worker who lives with a salary and suffering, but are modeled on the "choro" [7] of the population. Choro is one that challenges the system, steal, assault and innovation in assault tactics, has resources and help the community, is a veritable Maecenas ...
is also what is observed in the favelas of Brazil? Insurance. That's what we constantly discuss in relation to the performance of children who fail tests that measure school performance (SIMCE) [8], where he blamed all the blame on teachers. But we must see the reality of children. We know that children - especially men - are governed by models: the father may be an honest worker father who works for a starvation wage, will lose 2 or 3 hours a day in urban transport, treat it bad at work, you may not have a permanent contract and most likely have to be changing jobs. That's one model, the other model is the "choro", which has a whole culture is also a social culture of courage, defiance, resistance, criticism, anti-systemic efficiency and children gradually take that course . Sure, the school will not attract the same force that has the culture of the street. So, all this creates a situation that is at the bottom of society popular and there you go ... I do not think we can read the situation in Chile based on the old indicators of political sociology. As we have no indicators sociological or political concepts to see the deeper reality, you have to invent others. And I think the social history, social psychology and sociologists of land are far more qualified than other sciences to unveil this reality ...
________________________________________ [1] Chilean sociologist. Member of the Academic Network of Researchers on Latin America (Rupal). http://fmdelacuadra.blogspot.com/
[2] He was president of Chile between 1958 and 1964, after winning elections with the support of the Conservative Party and the Liberal Party, both right.
[3] President of Chile in two periods (1920-1925) and (1932 - 1938). At the end of his first term was enacted the Constitution of 1925 which ruled the country until 1973, when it was broken the constitutional order through a coup.
[4] The National Copper Corporation (Codelco) is a company dedicated to the exploration, development and exploitation of mineral resources of copper and byproducts. It was created under the promulgation of constitutional reform that nationalized copper on July 11, 1971. For its part ENAP is the National Oil Company. Both companies are so far, almost the only entities that are kept entirely in the hands of the Chilean State.
[5] President of Chile in two periods (1927-1931) and (1952-1958). His first term is especially known for its strong authoritarian imprint in 1931 because he is forced to resign because there was general discontent towards the government.
[6] The National Unified School (ENU) was a structural reform to Chile's education system made during the People's Government of Salvador Allende (1970-1973). In short, the ENU posed a radical change to the Chilean education system, with the aim of making education a vehicle of transformation of the socio-economic the country. letter (A) Libertarian
